ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION !

Renewable Energy Source » Renewable Energy » ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION !

Question:

Don’t be an idiot.

Response:

BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973: (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight and number. (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper for three or four weeks. (4) Separately incinerate both groups. (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of the sprouted group will usually weigh at least SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our own bodies. Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH temperatures and pressures.) Bibliography: "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", 1st Edition, by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of Science, 1972, 163 Pages, Illustrated, Swan House Publishing Co., P.O. Box 638, Binghamton, NY 13902 "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973, 402 Pages, Harper & Row, New York [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is FASCINATING! ] For more information, answers to your questions, etc., please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine P.S.: PASS IT ON ! Before you buy.

Response:

=o= I, for one, have missed this guy a whole hell of a lot. But what happened to his ever-present .sig file? Did he lose it (so to speak)? If so, here’s how I remember it: UNaltered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED! <_Jym_>

Response:

This version of "cold fusion" is even less plausible than the original P&F version of "cold fusion". Evidently the internet is to cranks as flypaper is to flies. — Ben Carter

Response:

> BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION !

This has *got* to be a joke… … and if not, are you interested in buying an abandoned airport? I’m talking about Fornebu, located just outside Oslo. Payment in cash only, please. — C Lund http://www.notam.uio.no/~clund/

Response:

> Evidently the internet is to cranks as flypaper is to flies.

Not quite: Flies die when they stuck on the flypaper. But cranks seem to thrive on the net.. B/ — C Lund http://www.notam.uio.no/~clund/

Response:

>This has *got* to be a joke…

If so, it is a long running one. — http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.

Response:

Cold fusion is bullshit, everyone with a working brain knows that.

Response:

<snip> > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics,

LOL… an amusing spoof of pseudoscience. Thanks for sharing.

Response:

Firstly, I don’t believe you for a second. What do you mean by this. "(3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper for three or four weeks." Do the seeds that sprout ever get to touch the air? Very simple question. Will you provide an answer?

Response:

[snip] > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.]

As far as I know, fusion won’t cause anything to gain mass. An atom created by two fused atoms will actually have slightly less mass than that of the combined original atoms, because some of the rest energy will be lost. Any gained mass has to come from somewhere else; probably the ‘distilled’ water or the filter paper in this case. Disclaimer: I’m only an undergrad physics student, so I may be missing something important here. > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..]

Before making such a claim, you’d better be darn sure these heavier elements couldn’t have been introduced any other way. Following my argument above, you should check for their presence in the water, the filter paper, and the surrounding environment. [snip stuff about fusion in animals, vegetables, and minerals] If fusion happened in nature nearly as often as you claim, don’t you think it would have come to the attention of the scientific community a long time ago?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON !

Before you buy.

Response:

***{So what? You would need to do lots of controls here, and discuss them in detail, to render such a conclusion significant. For example, it is possible that the filter paper had been exposed to the air for months prior to doing the experiment, and had accumulated lots of dust from the air. Result: the roots of the sprouts would pick up the nutrients from those dust particles and use them to build new plant structure, thereby gaining weight. Thus it would be necessary to weigh the filter paper before and after the experiment, as well as the sprouts. Without doing that, the results are utterly meaningless. –MJ}*** [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Before you buy. > Before you buy.

Response:

I saw a girl naked one time. Jason – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the > same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group > for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of > the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, > (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by > micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, > nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Before you buy. > Before you buy.

Response:

> > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird,

I thought Stevie Wonder wrote that – not one of his best though Before you buy.

Response:

>> BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe !

Take some Thorazine, and go back to sitting under your bridge. — Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]

Response:

AHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHA, what junk science will people believe

Response:

<snip> > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group >for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of >the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..]

Have you ever heard of nuclear forces (the ones in nucleii, that is)? The energy required to overcome these effects is monsterous. Nuclear forces have, in fact, been proven to exist, contrary to your "proofs." > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, >(much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by >micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, >nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc..

I don’t think any particle cascades have been detected from this, so what proof do we have of its occuring? > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc..

I think you are thinking of acid rain. In fact, speaking of acid, may that would explain this post. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones).

This isn’t fusion; nitrogen is heavier than carbon, and how would it produce oxygen from this? > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY !

It isn’t bacteria that’s doing it, it’s TIME. > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.)

Those laws of physics have been backed up by hundreds of years of research. Either you are stoned, or the people whom you believe are stoned and you are *very* gullible. All that is gold does not glitter; all that is long does not last; All that is old does not wither; not all that is over is past. Certification of Aragon son of Celegorn, of the line of Isildur Elendil’s son, known in Bree as Trotter; enemy of the Nine Friend of Gandalf

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

: : : : BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! : : ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! : : ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! : : A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the : FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O : –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as : described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis : Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the : book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and : Christopher Bird, 1973: : : (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same : kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] : : (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight : and number. : : (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper : for three or four weeks. : : (4) Separately incinerate both groups. : : (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of : the sprouted group will usually weigh at least You find it curious that combustion residue from sprouted seeds has more mass that that from unsprouted seeds? Curious. If it fair to suggest that your other conclusions follow from this basic sense of wonderment, that most highschool biology students could set to rest for you? : SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] Right, and it should not surprise you that trees have more combustion residue mass than do tree seeds. (Why do I feel I’m missing something in my reading of your post?) : : (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for : mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the : sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier : mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, : hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] Your evidence for this is? (Seeing that nothing else you have posted leads to this rather remarkable conclusion.) : : BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our : own bodies. On the contrary, they are totally nonexistent. : Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with : carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED : HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much : faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). Does this mean that if I eat silicon carbide (I go yuck at the very thought) will speed the healing of broken bones? How do you know this? : Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- : organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, : oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. Nonsense. You appear not to know the difference between simple chemical compounds and the results of fusion. : : The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, : cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. Your evidence to support this ridiculous claim is? At last glance, the glass windows of building (mostly Si) were not reacting with C to form Ca. Still, you may be living in a very special place that is evidently not on Earth. : The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, : creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators : and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). ROFL! Trust me, you’ll earn a Nobel Prize in chemistry if you come up with a method of converting N2 to CO!!!! Let me know when you receive it and I’ll begin to pay more attention to your claims. : Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! Some believe that so can Elvis during his periodic sightings. : ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the : currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law : which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH : temperatures and pressures.) Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an education in science? Bummer! Harry C.

Response:

> Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an > education in science? > Bummer! > Harry C.

Not only you Harry! If you read about Mizuno’s recent work you will find a lot too. From Infinite Energy issue 28, 1999 page 18. Mizuno’s recent work : However, in every case in which excess heat was generated, Si, Ca, Ti, Cr, Mn, Fe, Cu, and Zn were observed. When ordinary, nonglow discharge electrolysis was performed for 1000 seconds on other samples, or when glow discharge did not produce excess heat, no new elements were found inside the cathode. Svein

Response:

"Harry" apparently wrote from tiac.net: } } Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an } education in science? } } Bummer!

>Not only you Harry! >If you read about Mizuno’s recent work you will find a lot too.

You mean Mizuno wasted his time getting the education in science he puts to work in the lab? Please be clear. >From Infinite Energy issue 28, 1999 page 18. >Mizuno’s recent work : >However, in every case in which excess heat was generated, Si, Ca, Ti, Cr, >Mn, Fe, Cu, and Zn were observed. When ordinary, nonglow discharge >electrolysis was performed for 1000 seconds on other samples, or when glow >discharge did not produce excess heat, no new elements were found inside the >cathode.

Is this work covered by Mills’ patent, in your opinion? If not, why did you bring it up? — http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Harry" apparently wrote from tiac.net: > } > } Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an > } education in science? > } > } Bummer! >Not only you Harry! >If you read about Mizuno’s recent work you will find a lot too. > You mean Mizuno wasted his time getting the education in science > he puts to work in the lab? Please be clear. >From Infinite Energy issue 28, 1999 page 18. >Mizuno’s recent work : >However, in every case in which excess heat was generated, Si, Ca, Ti, Cr, >Mn, Fe, Cu, and Zn were observed. When ordinary, nonglow discharge >electrolysis was performed for 1000 seconds on other samples, or when glow >discharge did not produce excess heat, no new elements were found inside the >cathode. > Is this work covered by Mills’ patent, in your opinion? > If not, why did you bring it up?

What has Mill’s got to do with this? Now we are talking about cold fusion and all the different elements that Mizuno is producing. Not unlike what might happen in nature too. Maybe I am not making myself clear, I thought the connection was easy to see. Svein

Response:

… note followups … | | "Harry" apparently wrote from tiac.net: | } Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an | } education in science? | } Bummer! | | >Not only you Harry! | > | >If you read about Mizuno’s recent work you will find a lot too. | | You mean Mizuno wasted his time getting the education in science | he puts to work in the lab? Please be clear. | | >From Infinite Energy issue 28, 1999 page 18. | >Mizuno’s recent work : | >However, in every case in which excess heat was generated, Si, Ca, Ti, Cr, | >Mn, Fe, Cu, and Zn were observed. When ordinary, nonglow discharge | >electrolysis was performed for 1000 seconds on other samples, or when glow | >discharge did not produce excess heat, no new elements were found inside the | >cathode. | | Is this work covered by Mills’ patent, in your opinion? | | If not, why did you bring it up? >What has Mill’s got to do with this?

It happens to be the only topic with any real content discussed on sci.physics.fusion in weeks, and one that you have written about recently. And it is a very legitimate question. If the Mills patent does not cover the Mizuno work, and Mizuno is the way to go to make energy, then BLP is out to lunch. If it does cover what Mizuno is doing, he is already working for someone else. ;-) >Now we are talking about cold fusion and all the different elements that >Mizuno is producing.

Actually, you are talking about a reply to an article that is complete crap, as was documented when McElwaine first posted it many years ago, and my apologies for not reducing followups on the silly cross-post McElwaine provided. >Not unlike what might happen in nature too. Maybe I am >not making myself clear, I thought the connection was easy to see.

You really think McElwaine is right about "cold fusion in plants"? Sheesh. — http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.

Response:

There are several conventional sources from which these "mineral atoms" (whatever that means) could have come. The atmosphere contains in addition to O2, also CO2, N2, bacteria, dust, and what-have-you. did you check to make sure no dust accumualted on the filter paper. What about the "distilled" water? Surely you were not naive enough to think that it contained *no impurities? Oh well, I know this will probably fall on deaf ears, since these objections are so abvious that they should not even need to be stated. Why don’t these people post on alt.paranormal or something? — Do as thou thinkest best. Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Damn, you mean I wasted my time getting at least some portion of an > education in science? > Bummer! > Harry C. > Not only you Harry! > If you read about Mizuno’s recent work you will find a lot too. > From Infinite Energy issue 28, 1999 page 18. > Mizuno’s recent work : > However, in every case in which excess heat was generated, Si, Ca, Ti, Cr, > Mn, Fe, Cu, and Zn were observed. When ordinary, nonglow discharge > electrolysis was performed for 1000 seconds on other samples, or when glow > discharge did not produce excess heat, no new elements were found inside the > cathode. > Svein

Response:

This looks to me a little like the recepy for make mice (from 700 years oga): put some rags a in barn, wait 1 night without looking at it. The rags have transmutated into mice (prove is mice and extra holes in the rags) have fun… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Before you buy.

– the Netherlands

Response:

>> The state of the art of fusion and fission modeling goes > way beyond the liquid drop models. You really have to > have a quantum mechanical model if you are really going > to get anywhere in nuclear physics. >Forty eight years and around $48 billion dollars to support a veritable >army of welfare queens in white coats is a strong witness to the idea >that fusion scientists don’t actually know what they are doing.

Let’s break this down into two seperate problems: Problem one is understanding of the physics (reaction energies, cross sections, etc). Problem two is engineering the machinery to produce functional fusion plants using the physics in problem one. Your pseudo-physics aside, problem one was largely solved in the late 1930s and early 1940s. Problem two is still being solved now. If you do not understand how to differentiate between physics and engineering, as you apparently can’t, you have no business playing this game. -george william herbert

Response:

> Forty eight years and around $48 billion dollars to support a veritable > army of welfare queens in white coats is a strong witness to the idea > that fusion scientists don’t actually know what they are doing. The > idea was to achieve ignition but now the plan is downgraded towards > breakeven (even if the fusion generated energy cannot be easily > extracted and used to continue the confinement of the fusion fuel). > They admit that they are a factor of ten away from ignition.

The next ICF – Inertial Confinement Fusion – machine at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory should achieve ignition. That’s why it is called NIF – National Ignition Facility. http://lasers.llnl.gov/lasers/nif.html Construction of the NIF is well along: http://lasers.llnl.gov/lasers/nif/building/ In fact, the target chamber for NIF was dedicated just last Friday by Secretary of Energy Richardson. NIF will be as large as a sports stadium – most of which will be occupied by the laser bay with 192 laser beamlines. NIF will be complete in 2003. Stay tuned for results from this facility. Contrary to your statement, fusion scientists do know quite a lot. However, controlled thermonuclear fusion is a very difficult task. Check out some of the work that’s posted on the web pages linked to the NIF homepage. Dr. Gregory Greenman Physicist

Response:

> During the development of the atomic bomb, the best > theory they were able to come up with for the fission > process treated the nucleus of an atom as a droplet of > water held together by surface tension. The protons, > being of like charge, tend to repel each other but the > neutrons act as buffers between them. As we look at > nuclei of increasing size, the surface tension becomes > over stressed, sort of like an overfilled water balloon. > The protons and neutrons keep rearranging themselves > trying to keep the protons as far apart from each other > as possible.

Bruce, I wouldn’t try pushing the liquid drop model too far here. The liquid drop model is a good model to help explain fission to non-physicists, but it is not really all that helpful for real world calculations. > By the time we get to a nucleus the size of a uranium > atom’s, the droplet is sloshing around and often becomes > elongated. Uranium 235, having three fewer neutrons to > act as buffers than uranium 238, tends to distort more > than uranium 238 despite its smaller size. Eventually > the droplet will become so elongated that it breaks > roughly in the middle.

This is one place where the liquid drop model gets into trouble – the fissioning U-235 doesn’t break in the middle – in fact equal mass fission fragments is one of the least likely outcomes of fission. The most likely masses for fission fragments are about 98 and 135, approximately. The fission fragment yield distribution is a double-humped curve. For a graph of the curve, I believe you will find one in a nuclear physics text by Robley Evans; "The Atomic Nucleus". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would like to repeat, this is not a theory that I dreamed > up. It was a theory proposed by some of the top scientists > working on the nuclear fission bomb. How does this relate > to fusion? That’s where my theory comes in. > If you watch a puddle of water being hit by rain drops > you will often see tiny beads of water bouncing around > on the surface of the puddle. The beads hold their shape > due to surface tension. They resist being absorbed into > the puddle or joining with other beads for a short period > of time. If one bead strikes another they often bounce > apart. When they strike each other forcefully they may > join, or break into smaller beads. But when they are > gently brought in contact with each other, or the puddle, > for a long enough time they will suddenly fuse together.

Unfortunately, your liquid drop model is missing an analogy for the Coulomb force – the electrostatic repulsion of the protons. Liquid water droplets don’t repel each other, and that’s why you can bring them gently into contact with each other for a long enough time. Fusing nuclei repel each other and you have to overcome that repulsive force – which is why you make the nuclei collide at high speed. High speed nuclei is just another way of saying high temperature – hence hot fusion. > Cold fusion, on the other hand, works by gently bringing > the atoms together. If the electrons, which provide the > surface tension to maintain the atom as a discreet group > of particles, can then be manipulated in such a way that > they do not pass between the nuclei, the atoms may fuse. > Once the nuclei have joined, the energy that was holding > them apart is free to do something else.

Because the protons in the fusing nuclei have a mutual repulsion due to the Coulomb, i.e.. electrostatic force; in order to have fusion, some force must overcome this mutual repulsion. That force is the strong nuclear force. However, the strong nuclear force is a very short range force – which is why you have to get the fusing nuclei so close together. The range of the strong nuclear force is much much less than the diameter of the orbit of even the closest electron. The electrons really don’t enter into the fusion reaction, save for their effect of keeping the whole plasma electrically neutral. > I know there are a lot of ifs and maybes above, but > as you point out, the present models leave a lot of > unanswered questions.

The state of the art of fusion and fission modeling goes way beyond the liquid drop models. You really have to have a quantum mechanical model if you are really going to get anywhere in nuclear physics. Dr. Gregory Greenman Physicist

Response:

… clearly off-topic newsgroup snipped … } } The only two disasters I am aware of — Three Mile Island and } Chernobyl — were both because of what might be called "the stupidtron", } a particle that afflicts all of us, travels faster than light (except } when documented), and has a huge mass (unless its measured).

>There was a precursor to both of these in Idaho that killed 3 >maintenance workers at an experimental reactor.

As you note, that was not a power reactor. There are also speculations about it being a murder/suicide. } (Or, a more conventional statement would be: "they failed because } of good old-fashioned human error"; in the case of Three Mile Island, } for example, someone shut off a coolant valve, IIRC.) >It was a coolant pump, inadvertently shut-off by a maintenance worker >that started the whole mess. This, of course, was protected for, but the >power surge from the loss of coolant lifted a relief valve that failed to >re-seat. This was the main cause of the loss of pressure that >eventually lead to boiling in the core and fuel-element failure. There >was an alarm that monitored temperatures downstream of the relief valve, >but it was disconnected due to spurious actuations.

That does not match my recollection of the sequence of events. The secondary feedwater pump was not shut off, it was blocked. That was not "inadvertant" and, IIRC, was properly noted with a tag on the control panel. This became relevant when the primary feedwater pump was tripped and no secondary supply was available. The loss of pressure also did not cause the core to be uncovered; that happened when the ECCS was turned off, what you note next. >The stupidity factor didn’t set in until control operators deliberately >disabled emergency reactor fill systems that would have kept the core >covered. They were unaware that an accident was in progress even though >automated systems tried to kick in on 3 occasions.

They knew an accident was in progress, they just did not understand it because they misinterpreted the meaning of one instrument. — http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.

Response:

> They knew an accident was in progress, they just did not understand > it because they misinterpreted the meaning of one instrument.

Jim, There were some other things they did not understand. I remember reading the chronology of the accident in the newspaper. At one point, the chronology stated, "Reactor stabilized at pressure of ???? and temperature of ???" [ I don't remember the actual numbers.] I was in grad school at the time and reached for my copy of the "Steam Tables", the book of the phase diagram of water. I wanted to know how close they were to the saturation line. When I looked up the pressure and temp from the newspaper – it was ON the saturation line. Stabilized?! Hell, they were BOILING – that’s why the pressure and temperature stabilized. Several months later, I attended a seminar by one of the accident investigators. He said when they visited the control room, they asked the operators for a steam-water phase diagram. He said it took them 15 minutes to find one! Then he asked if anyone had read the chronology in the newspapers. When people said they did, he replied "Need I say more?" Dr. Gregory Greenman Physicist

Response:

… note followups … } } During the development of the atomic bomb, the best } theory they were able to come up with for the fission } process treated the nucleus of an atom as a droplet of } water held together by surface tension. The protons, } being of like charge, tend to repel each other but the } neutrons act as buffers between them. As we look at } nuclei of increasing size, the surface tension becomes } over stressed, sort of like an overfilled water balloon. } The protons and neutrons keep rearranging themselves } trying to keep the protons as far apart from each other } as possible.

>I wouldn’t try pushing the liquid drop model too far here. >The liquid drop model is a good model to help explain >fission to non-physicists, but it is not really all that >helpful for real world calculations.

Well, the Bohr-Wheeler model for fission (from _before_ the war) did predict that 235U and 239Pu would be fissionable and even allowed some cross-section estimates to be made. However, it was not purely a liquid drop model. — http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.

Response:

> The state of the art of fusion and fission modeling goes > way beyond the liquid drop models. You really have to > have a quantum mechanical model if you are really going > to get anywhere in nuclear physics. > Dr. Gregory Greenman > Physicist

Forty eight years and around $48 billion dollars to support a veritable army of welfare queens in white coats is a strong witness to the idea that fusion scientists don’t actually know what they are doing. The idea was to achieve ignition but now the plan is downgraded towards breakeven (even if the fusion generated energy cannot be easily extracted and used to continue the confinement of the fusion fuel). They admit that they are a factor of ten away from ignition. The process of nuclear fusion is related to the process of establishing certain pairwise relationships between interacting fusion fuel nuclei. However, experiments with accelerated nuclei (deuterons) show that there is no actual threshold energy below which fusion reactions will not take place. A detectable number of fusion reactions do occur even when none of the interacting nuclei have sufficient energy to overcome the so-called Coulomb barrier. This leads one to suppose that nuclear fusion reactions are stimulated or catalyzed not by energetic collisions but rather by achieving low energy pairwise relationships between fusion fuel nuclei. So, it turns out that like charged particles don’t actually repel one another if they have a common de Broglie wavelength which is greater than or equal to the interparticle distance; in fact, they are strongly attractively interactive. Another way of saying this is that like charged particles in the same rest frame don’t actually repel one another but instead strongly attract each other. Amazing what things one can find when they decide to look for facts instead of theory! It is trivial to demonstrate a solid classical argument whereby electrostatics can be derived from electrodynamics. And we get some rather surprising results. It turns out that Coulomb’s Law is a ’special case’ subsumed under a ‘general case’ which describes the interaction of charged particles: Here’s my charged particle interaction "general case" which contains four simple parts: 1) "If like charged fundamental particles have a common de Broglie wavelength greater than or equal to the interparticle distance then they will attractively interact." 2) "If unlike charged fundamental particles have a common de Broglie wavelength greater than or equal to the interparticle distance then they will repulsively interact." 3) "If like charged fundamental particles have a common de Broglie wavelength less than the interparticle distance then they will repulsively interact." 4) "If unlike charged fundamental particles have a common de Broglie wavelength less than the interparticle distance then they will attractively interact." Parts three and four correspond to Coulomb’s Law but we see that they are properly subsumed under this new ‘general case’. This ‘general case’ is part of the foundation for a new and Apocalyptic Physics. What is meant by a ‘common’ de Broglie wavelength? The de Broglie wavelength, lambda, of a particle is defined as: lambda=h/mv and then two interacting particles have de Broglie wavelengths which are specific only to that relationship. In a universe of n particles a single particle has n-1 de Broglie wavelengths. Since we’re concentrating on a specific relationship then we can arbitrarily distribute the absolute velocity between the two particles into parts inversely with respect to their mass to arrive at the single unique solution of a ‘common’ de Broglie wavelength. This is just a simple way to define whether or not two particles have a common rest frame or occupy a common momentum space. The ‘general case’ is validated by such phenomenon as superconduction where electrons are attractively interactive and by the very existence of nuclei with more than a single proton. The word ‘tunneling’ which has been used extensively to ‘explain’ how like charged particles (like deuterons) which have insufficient energy to surmount the so-called ‘Coulomb barrier’ manage to undergo nuclear fusion is not an ‘explanation’ at all but rather an idiotic metaphor which has no process associated with it at all. One can easily see according to the ‘general case’ above that colliding fusion fuel nuclei into one another can never lead (on an individual basis) to nuclear fusion. High temperature gases allow for the development of discrete relationships between nuclei which can be accounted for statistically. Consider an excited gas of n number of fusion fuel nuclei. When n=2 the chance that both particles, for any small given increment of time will meet the criteria as stated in part one of the general case is, statistically, near zero. As n increases then at some point the chance that any given particle for a small given increment of time (delta t) will have a same state companion begins to approach unity. At some point it will be at unity if n is increased. When it reaches unity then tau number of states have developed where n>tau. k number of nuclei are in each of tau states so that k*tau = n. Unity occurs when k>=2. If we make delta t a variable which is equal to the mean free path divided by the average particle velocity then we can easily see that raising the temperature shortens delta t and causes the evolution of mores states per fixed unit of time for each particle. Three simultaneous criteria must be met to lead to a successful fusion reaction between a pair of fusion fuel nuclei in a hot gas. 1) the particles must meet the ‘general case’ criteria number one, 2) they must be ionized, and 3) they must be within a mean free path of one another. This analysis easily shows that raising the temperature of a fusion fuel gas will certainly lead to more fusion reactions per fixed unit of time (more reactions per second). However, raising the temperature cannot lead to breakeven simply because raising the temperature does not change the ratio of pairs of particles which meet the three simultaneous criteria per small increment of time (delta t) with respect to those which do not meet those criteria. The attempt to harness fusion by inertial or magnetic confinement processes is a bobcat chasing his tail. He can never catch it. Now all of this begins to beg the question of "How did massive elements come into being if not through high temperature processes?" and the answer lies in understanding the structure and dynamics of electromagnetotoroids. An electromagnetotoroid is a fundamental archetype structure which is ubiquitous in the universe. It is the fundamental underlying structure which generates the magnetic field of a star or planet. An electromagnetotoroid (EMT) can be modeled as a primitive current loop system which oscillates between two primary modes. The toroidal current mode (magnetic dipole mode) can transition into the poloidal current mode (electric dipole mode) by a pi/2 radian rotation of the current vector. {This pi/2 radian rotation of the current vector of plasma currents with a fast rising current density is a logical extension of Maxwell’s equations applied to current loop systems and is modeled as Del X I = A(sub d)/ t where A(sub d) is the electromagnetic vector potential density} (don’t look for this in your physics book, it is a recent discovery I have made which is as yet unpublished outside of the net). The EMT is quite rich in properties and when the electromagnetic vector potential is properly generalized as a velocity potential then we see that a discrete real velocity potential and its conjugate when mapped onto each other produce a null line. The EMT or Archetype has a null gradient structure which is precisely the same thing as a gravitational field and hence is a time gradient field. Like charged particles which approach the region of extreme time dilation near the toroidal axis immediately develop relative velocities which approach zero. Thus, they meet criterium number one of the ‘general case’ mentioned above and undergo nuclear fusion quite rapidly. A large scale electromagnetotoroid, during the poloidal current mode, can produce, by means of current vector rotations at the microdomain level, microscale current loop systems along its poloidal axis. These micro miniature primitive current loops are in exact identity with neutrons. Thus, we see that EMTs can even generate mass. Planets grow and heavy elements are generated in the core of the planet. This is a new and apocalyptic physics but it is, nevertheless, correct. Times are changing. Fusion reactions which are generated in the lithium deuteride fusion fuel column of a fusion weapon (H-bomb) are not stimulated into fusion reactions by the high temperatures generated but rather the absorption of a soft x-ray photon by a deuteron produces overlapping momentum states between it and neighboring deuterons. Not by collsion, but by achieving, even briefly, overlapping quantum states between the interacting fusion fuel nuclei, is the process whereby all fusion reactions are catalyzed. This is new but it is also correct. Unfortunately, it means that the bulk of modern particle interaction theory is nonsense and mountains of pseudo-knowledge (which never passed reasonable epistemological tests for quality in the first place) need to be abandoned. Careers built upon castles in the air need to be re-evaluated. And all of the wise men are turned to fools. Tch, tch, tch!. C. Cagle.

Response:

I have never considered this but I think you are onto something here. I knew the key to COLD FUSION might have something to do with the control of the electrons in the process but never gave it too much thought. Your thoughts deserve to be put into formal report (paper) form so we can get a clear image of the dynamics that may be involved. I would be happy to post it on my site for others to read. Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I would like to repeat, this is not a theory that I dreamed > up. It was a theory proposed by some of the top scientists > working on the nuclear fission bomb. How does this relate > to fusion? That’s where my theory comes in. > If you watch a puddle of water being hit by rain drops > you will often see tiny beads of water bouncing around > on the surface of the puddle. The beads hold their shape > due to surface tension. They resist being absorbed into > the puddle or joining with other beads for a short period > of time. If one bead strikes another they often bounce > apart. When they strike each other forcefully they may > join, or break into smaller beads. But when they are > gently brought in contact with each other, or the puddle, > for a long enough time they will suddenly fuse together. > Hot fusion attempts to join nuclei by forcing them > together at high velocities. This technique can > obviously be made to work as was proven with the > hydrogen bomb. But in that case the plasma was much > denser than any controlled fusion experiment attempted > thus far. A nuclear fission bomb was used to create > the temperature *and pressure* needed to start the > fusion reaction. > Cold fusion, on the other hand, works by gently bringing > the atoms together. If the electrons, which provide the > surface tension to maintain the atom as a discreet group > of particles, can then be manipulated in such a way that > they do not pass between the nuclei, the atoms may fuse. > Once the nuclei have joined, the energy that was holding > them apart is free to do something else. > In the case of cold fusion in plants, it could be the > electrons are temporarily diverted by a nearby chemical > reaction. In other forms of cold fusion it could be that > the atoms are pressed together closer than they are > normally held by chemical bonds. If held there long > enough the electrons will repel each other, vacating > the space between the nuclei. If we think of the electrons > as pressure waves, the same pressure that normally keeps > atoms separate can also keep two nuclei that drift near > each other together. > I know there are a lot of ifs and maybes above, but > as you point out, the present models leave a lot of > unanswered questions. > — > Bruce Richmond > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

: In the case of cold fusion in plants, it could be the : electrons are temporarily diverted by a nearby chemical reaction. If I’m not mistaken, the chemical reaction you’re thinking of has something to do with serotonin receptors in the brain reacting with certain interesting ergot derivatives. —– Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065 Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250 —– "A condemned man does not request egg salad for his last meal. He also doesn’t order Alka-Seltzer." Kehlog Ahlbran, _The Profit_

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry for the blunder. Evidently since retiring 5 years ago my mind > is getting rusty. I meant to say isotope distribution of course. > Thank you. > Also, I was just wondering. Since soils are established by matter > left behind by dead plants, if the plants did transmute elements, > wouldn’t the isotopic distribution of stable elements in the soil > closely resemble that in the plants? Unfortunately, you can’t tell > which is the chicken and which is the egg in that argument. > Carefully controlled studies are certainly needed. > Also, rainwater isn’t pure H2O. It contains dust and ashes from > earth, fires, rocks, volcanic emissions, and water droplets swept up > from bodies of water including the seas. Isn’t it likely that if no > other apparent source exists for the elements found in ashed plants, > that they came in through the rain?

What needs to be done is to analyze everything that is used in the experiment, including the seeds, water, soil and air. If an excess of calcium shows up in the seedlings, can it be accounted for by a depletion somewhere else? If not, what does show a depletion? The calcium had to come from somewhere! (Assuming an excess of calcium is measured.) > On the surface of it the theory that plants employ cold fusion or > some other principle to transmute elements is quite implausible and > seemingly impossible, but already known physical principles leave gaps > in the disproof of this theory. Even the idea that fusion reactions are > improbable to a given degree at low temperatures suffers from the > imprecisions of the modelling and other unknown factors.

During the development of the atomic bomb, the best theory they were able to come up with for the fission process treated the nucleus of an atom as a droplet of water held together by surface tension. The protons, being of like charge, tend to repel each other but the neutrons act as buffers between them. As we look at nuclei of increasing size, the surface tension becomes over stressed, sort of like an overfilled water balloon. The protons and neutrons keep rearranging themselves trying to keep the protons as far apart from each other as possible. By the time we get to a nucleus the size of a uranium atom’s, the droplet is sloshing around and often becomes elongated. Uranium 235, having three fewer neutrons to act as buffers than uranium 238, tends to distort more than uranium 238 despite its smaller size. Eventually the droplet will become so elongated that it breaks roughly in the middle. Most of the mass forms the nuclei of two new atoms while the rest is viewed as subatomic particles or radiation. I would like to repeat, this is not a theory that I dreamed up. It was a theory proposed by some of the top scientists working on the nuclear fission bomb. How does this relate to fusion? That’s where my theory comes in. If you watch a puddle of water being hit by rain drops you will often see tiny beads of water bouncing around on the surface of the puddle. The beads hold their shape due to surface tension. They resist being absorbed into the puddle or joining with other beads for a short period of time. If one bead strikes another they often bounce apart. When they strike each other forcefully they may join, or break into smaller beads. But when they are gently brought in contact with each other, or the puddle, for a long enough time they will suddenly fuse together. Hot fusion attempts to join nuclei by forcing them together at high velocities. This technique can obviously be made to work as was proven with the hydrogen bomb. But in that case the plasma was much denser than any controlled fusion experiment attempted thus far. A nuclear fission bomb was used to create the temperature *and pressure* needed to start the fusion reaction. Cold fusion, on the other hand, works by gently bringing the atoms together. If the electrons, which provide the surface tension to maintain the atom as a discreet group of particles, can then be manipulated in such a way that they do not pass between the nuclei, the atoms may fuse. Once the nuclei have joined, the energy that was holding them apart is free to do something else. In the case of cold fusion in plants, it could be the electrons are temporarily diverted by a nearby chemical reaction. In other forms of cold fusion it could be that the atoms are pressed together closer than they are normally held by chemical bonds. If held there long enough the electrons will repel each other, vacating the space between the nuclei. If we think of the electrons as pressure waves, the same pressure that normally keeps atoms separate can also keep two nuclei that drift near each other together. I know there are a lot of ifs and maybes above, but as you point out, the present models leave a lot of unanswered questions. — Bruce Richmond Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

>Ahhhrghh!!! >Don’t You know anything?? The PNP will induce structure instabilities >in the Heisenberg compensator without proper tachyon shielding!

DOuble and TRIple ARGGGGHHGHHH – Can we keep Bill Gates Plug and Pray out — Rgds ~`:o) Mike Network Power Systems Perth, Western Australia Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current info – trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering – for most people another form of magic.

Response:

> Sorry for the blunder. Evidently since retiring 5 years ago my mind > is getting rusty. I meant to say isotope distribution of course.

Thank you. Also, I was just wondering. Since soils are established by matter left behind by dead plants, if the plants did transmute elements, wouldn’t the isotopic distribution of stable elements in the soil closely resemble that in the plants? Unfortunately, you can’t tell which is the chicken and which is the egg in that argument. Carefully controlled studies are certainly needed. Also, rainwater isn’t pure H2O. It contains dust and ashes from earth, fires, rocks, volcanic emissions, and water droplets swept up from bodies of water including the seas. Isn’t it likely that if no other apparent source exists for the elements found in ashed plants, that they came in through the rain? On the surface of it the theory that plants employ cold fusion or some other principle to transmute elements is quite implausible and seemingly impossible, but already known physical principles leave gaps in the disproof of this theory. Even the idea that fusion reactions are improbable to a given degree at low temperatures suffers from the imprecisions of the modelling and other unknown factors. —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

>The only two disasters I am aware of — Three Mile Island and >Chernobyl — were both because of what might be called "the stupidtron", >a particle that afflicts all of us, travels faster than light (except >when documented), and has a huge mass (unless its measured). >(Or, a more conventional statement would be: "they failed because

There was a precursor to both of these in Idaho that killed 3 maintenance workers at an experimental reactor. >of good old-fashioned human error"; in the case of Three Mile Island, >for example, someone shut off a coolant valve, IIRC.)

It was a coolant pump, inadvertently shut-off by a maintenance worker that started the whole mess. This, of course, was protected for, but the power surge from the loss of coolant lifted a relief valve that failed to re-seat. This was the main cause of the loss of pressure that eventually lead to boiling in the core and fuel-element failure. There was an alarm that monitored temperatures downstream of the relief valve, but it was disconnected due to spurious actuations. The stupidity factor didn’t set in until control operators deliberately disabled emergency reactor fill systems that would have kept the core covered. They were unaware that an accident was in progress even though automated systems tried to kick in on 3 occasions. All-in-all, things couldn’t have been much worse in this accident; however, there were no fatalities and only a very small amount of fission products were released to the biosphere. — Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr. KG9ME | Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, http://www.hoxnet.com | Every time that wheel turn ’round, PGP Key ID 138BCEE1 | Bound to cover just a little more ground.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->there is much fusion and cold fusion propensity, >all good high yield power source for the new millenium, >and KMS fusion in Ann Arbor MI, US and others >will have been working on it for decades, >… >BUT, and it’s a big but, >those things need tachyonic safeties or else they go >unstable: > Um…. tachyonic safeties? I thought you didn’t need > those now that we have dilithium crystals and can > demodulate the quantum phase harmonics with a pulsed > neutrino band. > Alan > —- > More power Mr. Scott! I need more power!

I’m shovellin’ as fast as I can, Captain! — #1532 Proud Sponsor of the EAC Olympic Swimming Team EAC Underwater Demolitions Team "Darwin was wrong – we’re STILL apes!" —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->there is much fusion and cold fusion propensity, >all good high yield power source for the new millenium, >and KMS fusion in Ann Arbor MI, US and others >will have been working on it for decades, >… >BUT, and it’s a big but, >those things need tachyonic safeties or else they go >unstable: >Um…. tachyonic safeties? I thought you didn’t need >those now that we have dilithium crystals and can >demodulate the quantum phase harmonics with a pulsed >neutrino band.

Ahhhrghh!!! Don’t You know anything?? The PNP will induce structure instabilities in the Heisenberg compensator without proper tachyon shielding! –marcus >Alan >—- >More power Mr. Scott! I need more power!

I will have done it in about 9 hours and 30 minutes….

Response:

>there is much fusion and cold fusion propensity, >all good high yield power source for the new millenium, >and KMS fusion in Ann Arbor MI, US and others >will have been working on it for decades, >… >BUT, and it’s a big but, >those things need tachyonic safeties or else they go >unstable:

Um…. tachyonic safeties? I thought you didn’t need those now that we have dilithium crystals and can demodulate the quantum phase harmonics with a pulsed neutrino band. Alan —- More power Mr. Scott! I need more power!

Response:

there is much fusion and cold fusion propensity, all good high yield power source for the new millenium, and KMS fusion in Ann Arbor MI, US and others will have been working on it for decades, … BUT, and it’s a big but, those things need tachyonic safeties or else they go unstable: present science does not even recognize unified field dynamics/parallel physics on the (all inclusive) level it exists, and tachyon pulses from natural sources etc. blow up fusion reactors really readily from stuff all the ivy league eggheads say doesn’t even exist. Trans-Time Tachyonic Telephony with the (non-gamma) return circuit via satellite relay IS the only non-holt real safety on those things. If they don’t invoke tachyonic safety by law before they start using fusion, somehow, everyone is going to be sorry. (kaboom!) **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

Response:

>there is much fusion and cold fusion propensity, >all good high yield power source for the new millenium,

The millenium is a car. The millennium is the next 1,000 years. >and KMS fusion in Ann Arbor MI, US and others >will have been working on it for decades, >… >BUT, and it’s a big but, >those things need tachyonic safeties or else they go

Tachyonic safeties? What *are* you talking about? A tachyon is a theoretical particle that goes *faster* than light and has an imaginary mass. I’m not sure if the physicists have even dreamt up a coherent theory for these little things. (If they have, I’d be curious about it…) >unstable: present science does not even recognize >unified field dynamics/parallel physics on the >(all inclusive) level it exists, and tachyon pulses from >natural sources etc. blow up fusion reactors really >readily from stuff all the ivy league eggheads say >doesn’t even exist.

Uh huh, I see it happening all the time everywhere, those darned fusion reactors blowing up for no reason… (and yes, that was very heavy sarcasm). The only two disasters I am aware of — Three Mile Island and Chernobyl — were both because of what might be called "the stupidtron", a particle that afflicts all of us, travels faster than light (except when documented), and has a huge mass (unless its measured). (Or, a more conventional statement would be: "they failed because of good old-fashioned human error"; in the case of Three Mile Island, for example, someone shut off a coolant valve, IIRC.) Note of course that those are fission reactors. It’s highly unlikely that fusion reactors would blow up anyway, if my understanding is up-to-date, unless one counts the plasma cloud going "poof" as an explosion — about all you’d get is puzzled looks from the controllers because the power levels go towards zero (because the magnetic bottle "broke"). Or maybe the darned thing runs out of glass-coated hydrogen pellets, which don’t explode (implode, actually) without laser action. Neither one of these is especially dangerous, as far as I know, although I wouldn’t want to stand in the path of one of the lasers. >Trans-Time Tachyonic Telephony >with the (non-gamma) return circuit via satellite relay

Uh…satellites don’t relay tachyons — at least, not by design. I’m not even sure how we’d detect the silly things, never mind how we’d relay ‘em… >IS the only non-holt real safety on those things. If they don’t invoke >tachyonic safety by law before they start using fusion, somehow, everyone is >going to be sorry. (kaboom!)

I’d be more worried about a stupidtron hitting a nuclear power system than a tachyon hitting a nuclear power system, somehow. At least I can prove stupidtrons exist (and fairly copiously, too). Try http://www.dumbcrimes.com for some very amusing examples of stupidtron hits…. [.adsnip] —- also suffered from a very massive stupidtron particle hit sometime last week. (Don’t ask. It’s too painful. )

Response:

Sorry for the blunder. Evidently since retiring 5 years ago my mind is getting rusty. I meant to say isotope distribution of course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read this book and found it fascinating also. However I have not > heard of carefully documented follow up or repeat studies which verify > the biological transmutations which you refer to. I am a retired > scientist and have wondered if someone has access to a very accurate > mass spectrometer it should show a changed ratio of isomer > disributions > after ashing sprouted seeds compared to unsprouted ashed seeds. > I dislike to pick apart a carefully reasoned rebuttal. They seem to > be as rare and as precious as, well, something rare and precious. > However, I think the word is "isotopes", not "isomers." > —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

[followups set]

: Robert E. McElwaine : B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC : P.S.: PASS IT ON ! I feel that I can’t pass it on unless I’m reminded that UN-altered REPRODUCTION of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED. —– Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065 Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250 —– "Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time." — The French Knight

Response:

> I read this book and found it fascinating also. However I have not > heard of carefully documented follow up or repeat studies which verify > the biological transmutations which you refer to. I am a retired > scientist and have wondered if someone has access to a very accurate > mass spectrometer it should show a changed ratio of isomer disributions > after ashing sprouted seeds compared to unsprouted ashed seeds.

I dislike to pick apart a carefully reasoned rebuttal. They seem to be as rare and as precious as, well, something rare and precious. However, I think the word is "isotopes", not "isomers." —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

I read this book and found it fascinating also. However I have not heard of carefully documented follow up or repeat studies which verify the biological transmutations which you refer to. I am a retired scientist and have wondered if someone has access to a very accurate mass spectrometer it should show a changed ratio of isomer disributions after ashing sprouted seeds compared to unsprouted ashed seeds. Inorganic calcium for instance shows a particular distribution of isomers. The Calcium produced by transmutation (if true) would be expected to reflect the isomer distribution of the elements which formed it in a complex way but slightly different over-all from the "normal" calcium as an example. If you are aware of any verifying studies I would be very interested. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ( BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ) > ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

> ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ( BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ) > ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) [...] > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > P.S.: PASS IT ON !

Come on, Robert, it’s just not the same. How was that again, Unaltered REPRODUCTION [..] is ENCOURAGED I haven’t got it quite right. If we have to have more from you, please, do it the right way. *** Echelon, bomb, sneakers, GRU: swamp the snoops with trivia! ***

Response:

> I haven’t got it quite right. If we have to have more from you, > please, do it the right way.

And more JUMBO COSMOSPHERES, please! Paul

Response:

ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! ( BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ) ( ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ) A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973: (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight and number. (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper for three or four weeks. (4) Separately incinerate both groups. (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of the sprouted group will usually weigh at least SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our own bodies. Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH temperatures and pressures.) Bibliography: "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", 1st Edition, by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of Science, 1972, 163 Pages, Illustrated, Swan House Publishing Co., P.O. Box 638, Binghamton, NY 13902 "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, 1973, 402 Pages, Harper & Row, New York [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is FASCINATING! ] For more information, answers to your questions, etc., please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC P.S.: PASS IT ON ! —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> just curious, "another form of cold fusion"? did I miss the first one > somewhere? > Yes, you did. The term has been applied to at least 4 different phenomena: > * "Low"-energy production of new synthetic (transuranic) elements (low > here being merely some hundreds of MeV) > * muon catalysed fusion > * biological fusion, i.e. of plant cells with each other (nuclei!) > * Fleischmann-Pons/Jones ttype fusion. > I guess Kervran was there first, though, crazy man. > PS: It’s no use responding to McElwayne, he sends but does not, to my > knowledge, receive, certainly never responds to comments. And I reckon > we’re better off for it, one endlessly argumentative AP type is enough. > *** Echelon, bomb, sneakers, GRU: swamp the snoops with trivia! ***

Dear Dieter I have read L.Kevran book on biological transmutations, in original edition (french) I found in it many incorrect calculations and statements,but still I am curious to know something more on this subject. Has anyone attempted to verify his experiments? I will sometimes try, but I miss some fundamental items like a precision balance and a photometer, so my tests will be very rough (Determining only Calcium difference between germinated and ungerminated seeds, by semiquantitative color comparison). Can someone join the test or cooperate somehow?? Thanks for the attention Salvatore Previtera

Response:

So if one reads the reference to Kervran correctly does this mean that one might see cold fusion as a function of excess Wheat! To do this I suppose one would have to use a Seedbeck calorimeter.

Response:

As to the suggestion "pass it on", I think that if I tried to digest it, it would probably get stuck in my colon. Mike D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. > Dear Robert, > I have read both cited books, the Kervran one in original language, and I > was > obviously excited about what is written there (and partially summarized in > Tompkins > and Bird interesting book. > I am a chemistry graduate, with some physics knowledge, and I was > disappointed by > some inexact statement of Dr. Kervran, probably because of the hurry in > writing > the book on the "hot" subject of biological element transmutation. > In particular, when exposing the Komaki experiment on the activity of > saccharomices > cerevisiae, Kervran declares that 200 cc (practically 200 grams) > of colture medium containing 20 ppm of an element correspond to 0.4 mg, > while 200 x 20 x10exp-6 grams equals 4 mg!!! > He repeats several times this assertion and use the 0.4 value along its > calculations > and demonstrations. > Obviously this does not completely spoil the exposition of Komaki work, but > the > secon disappointing thing is that mr Komaki is not listed in the > bibliography, and > the original work cannot be checked.(what is written in the english > translation???) > Since I read the books about 10 years ago, after a while I dropped my > interest thinking > to the whole story as a nice novel and a good science fiction topic, good to > publish > books. > Later I went to the Paris editor and asked for Mr. Kervran, who was died in > the meantime, > but I got the address of his son in Britany. > I liked to meet him especially to know which kind of man was his father, if > was a serious > experimenter or a writer "a la page". > The cold fusion found me rather skeptic, but recently I heard in a TV > program Prof. Rubbia, > initially skeptic too, more incline to consider the subject, even at CERN. > I also have a friend, a university professor of theoretical physics, that I > am told believes > to cold fusion. > So, to finish, if yow believe to natural transmutations, a sort of cold > fusion, why not > try to organize one or more experiments to verify what described in Kervran > book??? > I look forward to hear from yow > Sincerely Yours > Salvatore Previtera > Doctor in Chemistry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Dear Robert, I have read both cited books, the Kervran one in original language, and I was obviously excited about what is written there (and partially summarized in Tompkins and Bird interesting book. I am a chemistry graduate, with some physics knowledge, and I was disappointed by some inexact statement of Dr. Kervran, probably because of the hurry in writing the book on the "hot" subject of biological element transmutation. In particular, when exposing the Komaki experiment on the activity of saccharomices cerevisiae, Kervran declares that 200 cc (practically 200 grams) of colture medium containing 20 ppm of an element correspond to 0.4 mg, while 200 x 20 x10exp-6 grams equals 4 mg!!! He repeats several times this assertion and use the 0.4 value along its calculations and demonstrations. Obviously this does not completely spoil the exposition of Komaki work, but the secon disappointing thing is that mr Komaki is not listed in the bibliography, and the original work cannot be checked.(what is written in the english translation???) Since I read the books about 10 years ago, after a while I dropped my interest thinking to the whole story as a nice novel and a good science fiction topic, good to publish books. Later I went to the Paris editor and asked for Mr. Kervran, who was died in the meantime, but I got the address of his son in Britany. I liked to meet him especially to know which kind of man was his father, if was a serious experimenter or a writer "a la page". The cold fusion found me rather skeptic, but recently I heard in a TV program Prof. Rubbia, initially skeptic too, more incline to consider the subject, even at CERN. I also have a friend, a university professor of theoretical physics, that I am told believes to cold fusion. So, to finish, if yow believe to natural transmutations, a sort of cold fusion, why not try to organize one or more experiments to verify what described in Kervran book??? I look forward to hear from yow Sincerely Yours Salvatore Previtera Doctor in Chemistry

Response:

> "…. McElwaine’s original concern was UFOs, incidentally…." > —– > Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065 > Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250 > —– > ". . .Mr Schultz acts like a functional electro-terrorist who > impedes scientific communications with his too oft-silliness." > – Mitchell Swartz, sci.physics.fusion article

LOL. At last, Mr. Schultz reveals his specialty.

Response:

> This is a joke, right? Or do I not visit this NG often enough?

A regular posting, I’m afraid, and one of the reasons why few people not only don’t take the possibility cold fusion seriously, but try and distance themselves from anything and anyone to do with it.

Response:

Speaking of other forms of "Cold Fusion" (actually, not so cold), can someone point me in the direction (preferably, virtual direction) of some non-crackpot introductory information on "Sonoluminescence"? The source(s) would hopefully go into a level of detail beyond "popular". Thanks.

Response:

[note the changed followup line]

: > : > This is a joke, right? Or do I not visit this NG often enough? : A regular posting, I’m afraid, and one of the reasons why : few people not only don’t take the possibility cold fusion : seriously, but try and distance themselves from anything : and anyone to do with it. Spoken like a true newbie. Robert McElwaine has been posting his screeds since well before Pons & Fleischmann made their original claims. McElwaine’s original concern was UFOs, incidentally, and he was famous across Usenet for his closing line "UN-altered REPRODUCTION of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED." —– Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065 Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250 —– ". . .Mr Schutz [sic] acts like a functional electro-terrorist who impeads [sic] scientific communications with his too oft-silliness."

Response:

> This is a joke, right? Or do I not visit this NG often enough? > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY !

I wouldn’t describe it as a joke. Poor form actually, to laugh at others absurd ideas and offhanded attempts at science. Silly enough all right, but apparently not a joke. If it is, someone will have to explain to me just what is funny about it.

Response:

Joke!?! No way man, they are closing down the NIF right now! I swear! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This is a joke, right? Or do I not visit this NG often enough? > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

This is a joke, right? Or do I not visit this NG often enough? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY ! > ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION ! > ALTERNATIVE Heavy Element Creation in Universe ! > A very simple experiment can demonstrate (PROVE) the > FACT of " BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS " (reactions like Mg + O > –> Ca, Si + C –> Ca, K + H –> Ca, N2 –> CO, etc.), as > described in the BOOK " Biological Transmutations " by Louis > Kervran, [1972 Edition is BEST.], and in Chapter 17 of the > book "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS " by Peter Tompkins and > Christopher Bird, 1973: > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Ingesting a source of organic silicon (silicon with > carbon, such as "horsetail" extract, or radishes) can SPEED > HEALING OF BROKEN BONES via the reaction Si + C –> Ca, (much > faster than by merely ingesting the calcium directly). > Some MINERAL DEPOSITS in the ground are formed by micro- > organisms FUSING together atoms of silicon, carbon, nitrogen, > oxygen, hydrogen, etc.. > The two reactions Si + C <–> Ca, by micro-organisms, > cause "STONE SICKNESS" in statues, building bricks, etc.. > The reaction N2 –> CO, catalysed by very hot iron, > creates a CARBON MONOXIDE POISON HAZARD for welder operators > and people near woodstoves (even properly sealed ones). > Some bacteria can even NEUTRALIZE RADIOACTIVITY ! > ALL OF THESE THINGS AND MORE HAPPEN, IN SPITE OF the > currently accepted "laws" of physics, (including the law > which says that atomic fusion requires EXTREMELY HIGH > temperatures and pressures.) > Bibliography: > "BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS, And Their Applications In > CHEMISTRY, PHYSICS, BIOLOGY, ECOLOGY, MEDICINE, > NUTRITION, AGRIGULTURE, GEOLOGY", > 1st Edition, > by C. Louis Kervran, Active Member of New York Academy of > Science, > 1972, > 163 Pages, Illustrated, > Swan House Publishing Co., > P.O. Box 638, > Binghamton, NY 13902 > "THE SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS", > by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird, > 1973, > 402 Pages, > Harper & Row, > New York > [Chapters 19 and 20 are about "RADIONICS". Entire book is > FASCINATING! ] > For more information, answers to your questions, etc., > please consult my CITED SOURCES (the two books). > Robert E. McElwaine > B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC > http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mcelwaine > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Guys, have you ever noticed that this fool never (thats NEVER) replies to your comments? Stop wasting your time and just kill file all ‘his’ posts — Yours sincerely Alan Erskine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> just curious, "another form of cold fusion"? did I miss the first one > somewhere? > — > — > Steve Spence > Renewable Energy Pages > http://www.webconx.com > — > > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > > and number. > > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > > for three or four weeks. > > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > Is this supposed to be astonishing? Of course it will, if it has been > undergoing > photosynthesis. It’s been fixing carbon from the atmosphere. > > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > Mineral atoms? Which group of the periodic chart are the mineral atoms? > > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > Curiouser and curiouser. Minerals are by definition chemical compounds, > not elements. > I hope these guys are shielding themselves from the huge neutron flux > emanating from > sprouting seeds > > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > > own bodies. > Probably somewhere in Roger Penrose’s magic microtubules, where the > reaction is > powered by supergravity. > > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Piss it off. > — > Alan McGowen

Response:

… > After all, the post said 4000W/cm3 and you slickly > switched it to 4000 W.

Yep. True enough. However, give me a break here. I can chose a 1 cm3 electrode, and I thought that was roughly the size of the electrodes used most often. The current stuff is done with beads and I thought these would be hard to use in less than a cm3. If the claim were valid, then we want to stop asking about how much energy is liberated for a few minutes every few hours, and instead ask how much energy overall is liberated, versus how much is input, integrated over several days at least. You just need to pick a large enough pellet load to make the measurement easy enough. > "Tuning the errors up" must be a projection based on > your own work one supposes.

I was proposing that by using the same flawed experimental process making the same errors, they may have obtained their great results by optimizing the error. This is not a projection but a strong objection to their failure to address the issues. > Do you even know which group made the largest claim > which you cite and demean?

Last I looked, it was the group that is making the special cold fusion pellets, and about the only org still doing any work at all in this, at least publicly. > And did that study really have 1 watt in as you claim? > Looking forward to your, probably evasive, answers > to the above.

Why would I want to be evasive? You are the one claiming that sound research is showing this result. Who would that be? When I looked last the company selling beads of their special cold fusion fuel were the only ones reporting a 1000 w/something gain. Their papers and procedure are nicely presented, but fundamentally flawed unless they have changed a lot more than I have heard. The fact they are still talking of power output, and not total energy output, is a dead giveaway, in my opinion. No one here would be happier if they were in fact showing me wrong and I just have not caught up to the revolution, but I just don’t believe it yet. The ball is, as they say, in your, or more correctly, their court.

Response:

How about posting a reference for the paper where these claims are made? That way we can judge the claim fairly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> … > > There is much experimental data. In cold fusion, since > > the initial announcement in 1989, > > there has been scale up from the 10W/cm3 for Pd, and > > some reports now exceed 4000W/cm3 power density. > You may note, however, that these stupendous results are obtained only > with careful avoidance of any physical condition where the power output > could actually be measured independently. That is, a hot water heater or > similar that takes in 1 watt and provides 4000 watts of heat. The > initial results were marginal, unreproducable, and may have been the > result of systematic measurement errors. The great new results show all > the signs of being the product of tuning the errors up to get even > better bad results. > Fred, > What you are stating above is not correct. > After all, the post said 4000W/cm3 and you slickly > switched it to 4000 W. > "Tuning the errors up" must be a projection based on > your own work one supposes. > Do you even know which group made the largest claim > which you cite and demean? ? > And did that study really have 1 watt in as you claim? > Looking forward to your, probably evasive, answers > to the above. > Best wishes. > Mitchell Swartz

Response:

… > There is much experimental data. In cold fusion, since > the initial announcement in 1989, > there has been scale up from the 10W/cm3 for Pd, and > some reports now exceed 4000W/cm3 power density.

You may note, however, that these stupendous results are obtained only with careful avoidance of any physical condition where the power output could actually be measured independently. That is, a hot water heater or similar that takes in 1 watt and provides 4000 watts of heat. The initial results were marginal, unreproducable, and may have been the result of systematic measurement errors. The great new results show all the signs of being the product of tuning the errors up to get even better bad results.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > … > There is much experimental data. In cold fusion, since > the initial announcement in 1989, > there has been scale up from the 10W/cm3 for Pd, and > some reports now exceed 4000W/cm3 power density. > You may note, however, that these stupendous results are obtained only > with careful avoidance of any physical condition where the power output > could actually be measured independently. That is, a hot water heater or > similar that takes in 1 watt and provides 4000 watts of heat. The > initial results were marginal, unreproducable, and may have been the > result of systematic measurement errors. The great new results show all > the signs of being the product of tuning the errors up to get even > better bad results.

Fred, What you are stating above is not correct. After all, the post said 4000W/cm3 and you slickly switched it to 4000 W. "Tuning the errors up" must be a projection based on your own work one supposes. Do you even know which group made the largest claim which you cite and demean? ? And did that study really have 1 watt in as you claim? Looking forward to your, probably evasive, answers to the above. Best wishes. Mitchell Swartz

Response:

> ahh, it was my understanding that there has been no verified "cold-fusion" > energy production.

There is much experimental data. In cold fusion, since the initial announcement in 1989, there has been scale up from the 10W/cm3 for Pd, and some reports now exceed 4000W/cm3 power density. More references on cold fusion are available through the literature including leads and refs. at http://world.std.com/~mica/cftrefs.html and http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion/index.html Literature in this field includes papers in Fusion Technology, Journal of New Energy, New Energy News, Braz. J. Phys., Chin. J. Nucl. Phys., Denki Kagaku oyubi Kogyo, Butsuri Kagaku, Env. Res. Forum, Int. J. Hydrogen Energy, nzh.-Fiz. Zh., J. High Temp. Soc., J. Sci. Expl.,J. Qingdao Univ., J. Thermal Anal., J. Electroanal.Chem., J. Alloys Comp., Jpn. J. Appl. Phys., Juaxue Tongbao, Kinki Daigaku Genshiyoku Kenkyusho Nenpo, Netsu Sokutei, Nucl. Sci. Tech., Phys. Lett. A, Proc. Japan Acad., Repts. Fac. Saga Univ., Repts Fac. Shizuoka Univ., Suiso Enerugi Shisutemu, Thermochim. Acta, COLD FUSION TIMES and other journals. Have a good day. Mitchell Swartz

Response:

> just curious, "another form of cold fusion"? did I miss the first one > somewhere?

Yes, you did. The term has been applied to at least 4 different phenomena: * "Low"-energy production of new synthetic (transuranic) elements (low here being merely some hundreds of MeV) * muon catalysed fusion * biological fusion, i.e. of plant cells with each other (nuclei!) * Fleischmann-Pons/Jones ttype fusion. I guess Kervran was there first, though, crazy man. PS: It’s no use responding to McElwayne, he sends but does not, to my knowledge, receive, certainly never responds to comments. And I reckon we’re better off for it, one endlessly argumentative AP type is enough. *** Echelon, bomb, sneakers, GRU: swamp the snoops with trivia! ***

Response:

ahh, it was my understanding that there has been no verified "cold-fusion" energy production. — — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com —

Response:

just curious, "another form of cold fusion"? did I miss the first one somewhere? — — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.] > Is this supposed to be astonishing? Of course it will, if it has been > undergoing > photosynthesis. It’s been fixing carbon from the atmosphere. > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the > Mineral atoms? Which group of the periodic chart are the mineral atoms? > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..] > Curiouser and curiouser. Minerals are by definition chemical compounds, > not elements. > I hope these guys are shielding themselves from the huge neutron flux > emanating from > sprouting seeds > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies. > Probably somewhere in Roger Penrose’s magic microtubules, where the > reaction is > powered by supergravity. > P.S.: PASS IT ON ! > Piss it off. > — > Alan McGowen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > (1) Obtain a good sample of plant seeds, all of the same > kind. [Some kinds might work better that others.] > (2) Divide the sample into two groups of equal weight > and number. > (3) Sprout one group in distilled water on filter paper > for three or four weeks. > (4) Separately incinerate both groups. > (5) Weigh the residue from each group. [The residue of > the sprouted group will usually weigh at least > SEVERAL PERCENT MORE than the other group.]

Is this supposed to be astonishing? Of course it will, if it has been undergoing photosynthesis. It’s been fixing carbon from the atmosphere. > (6) Analyze quantitatively the residue of each group for > mineral content. [ Some of the mineral atoms of the

Mineral atoms? Which group of the periodic chart are the mineral atoms? > sprouted group have been TRANSMUTED into heavier > mineral elements by FUSING with atoms of oxygen, > hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, etc..]

Curiouser and curiouser. Minerals are by definition chemical compounds, not elements. I hope these guys are shielding themselves from the huge neutron flux emanating from sprouting seeds > BIOLOGICAL TRANSMUTATIONS occur ROUTINELY, even in our > own bodies.

Probably somewhere in Roger Penrose’s magic microtubules, where the reaction is powered by supergravity. > P.S.: PASS IT ON !